GFSA get their facts spectacularly wrong. Again. Still.

Below follows a transcript of emails sent between Ludwig Churr, a self-funded and independent gun rights activist of immense ability and knowledge, and the two Big Cheeses of Gun-Free South Africa, Adele Kirsten and Claire Taylor, about numerous discrepancies, inaccuracies, and blatant lies propagated by the latter in radio and newspaper interviews.

GFSA being unable to corroborate or confirm anything they claim to be true is nothing new. Professor Sebastian van As, of the Red Cross Children’s Hospital and a GFSA board member, was caught out lying to the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee during the Firearm Summit back in March, and was famously ridiculed for the shortcomings in his research by Martin Hood.

Now if an organisation is not willing to be transparent and honest about exactly where their data and research comes from, then how can any credibility what so ever be attached to anything they say? Doing so is sheer lunacy, and the public should not accept anything propagated by these shysters as remotely factual.

There is a lot of reading below, but I assure you that it is all important and illuminating.


24 June 2015.

Open email to Gun Free South Africa via both email addresses as supplied on GFSA website 24 June 2015

Dear Gun Free South Africa members as listed below,

GFSA presentations to the Parliament Police Portfolio Committee Summit meeting on 24 March 2015.

There are a number of GFSA statistics that I disputed in writing prior to the above summit date. NIMSS researchers have confirmed in January 2015, and again during April 2015 that there are errors on the NIMSS report statistics as used by GFSA.

During the GFSA presentation to the Parliament Police Portfolio Committee on 24 March 2015, I made my views known regarding GFSA/NIMSS research report statistical errors during the numerous question sessions. My written submissions to Parliament regarding these GFSA/NIMSS statistical errors were also handed to the GFSA members that where presenting to the Police Portfolio Committee on 24 March 2015. I expressed to the Portfolio Committee on 25 March 2015 my willingness to meet and discuss with GFSA why the GFSA NIMSS statistics are incorrect.

As three months have passed since GFSA where handed copies of my Parliament Submissions, this three month period deemed to be a reasonable time for GFSA members to have read my submissions and comments regarding GFSA/NIMSS statistical errors.

GFSA again presented to the same committee on 3 June 2015. Once again I find that some research and GFSA recommendations to the same committee wanting in a number of aspects, to put it kindly.

Will GFSA be willing to discuss the various incorrect NIMSS/GFSA research papers with me?

The dates, Cape Town venue, other than your 3 Rye Rd, Mowbray, Cape Town, 7700 address as displayed on your web search return below, mediator and due process can be agreed to in advance if GFSA board members are willing to meet and discuss this issue with me.

GFSA researcher’s, commentators and authors that produced incorrect and misleading statistics and information are as follows:-

A Kirsten.

C. Tailor.

Professor Sebastian Van As.

Dr. Richard Matzopoulos.

It is understood and acceptable that Professor Van As, being a practicing surgeon, might wish to send a representative in his stead.  The Professor’s representatives can be the two trained experts that produced the research used and signed by Professor Van As.

A google search on Gun Free South Africa also displays my comments to a GFSA press release that I previously disputed. See google search view below “Has Gun Free South Africa Lost Credibility”. Both GFSA press release and my comments have been in the public domain for a reasonable time period.

I respectfully request that GFSA reply to this open email within 30 days from 24 June 2015. A reply from GFSA by 24 July 2015 will be most appreciated as there will be a new round of Police Portfolio Committee meetings in August 2015 at Parliament in Cape Town.

I remain

Yours faithfully

Signed

L D Churr


Dear Mr Churr

Thank you for your email.  Please note:

  1. The NIMSS research  you refer to was not undertaken by Gun Free South Africa, please see http://www.mrc.ac.za/crime/nimss.htm for more information on the NIMSS project.
  2. The research in the media statement you refer to was undertaken by Dr Richard Matzopoulos and published in the American Journal of Public Health – see http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2013.310650; it too was not undertaken by Gun Free South Africa.
  3. Gun Free South Africa uses, and references, a range of data in our public and media relations work – all this data is in the public domain, and much of it has been published in peer reviewed, accredited international journals.
  4. If you feel there are problems with the data, please direct your concerns to the authors of the research and/ or the journals in which the research was published.
  5. We would urge you to have your own interpretation of data published in peer reviewed, accredited international journals so that it becomes part of the important repository of information showing that gun control saves lives.

Yours sincerely

Claire


Dear Claire,

Thank you kindly for GFSA prompt reply and comments and suggestions which are valued. It is trusted that my reply to the GFSA comments will also receive similar treatment.

GFSA suggestion as per point number 4 below refers.

My previous direct requests for information and clarifications and error notifications regarding various Gun Free South Africa committed and active board members, being authors and publishers of research and books, have previously also been rejected as follows:-

Committed and Active Board Member Dr. Richard Matzopoulos published research.

Numerous previous email correspondence between myself and UCT, and various NIMSS researchers including, and not limited to, Gun Free South Africa committed and active board member Dr. Richard Matzopoulos in this regard refers. UCT, as well as the editor, researcher and administrator of the NIMSS 2003 report, which happens to also be GFSA committed and dedicated board member Dr. R Matzopoulos, were notified in writing by me that there are questions as well as errors in the NIMSS research papers.

UCT has acknowledged in January 2015 that there are errors and questions, but have declined to correct errors or answer questions regarding NIMSS research. Such research by GFSA active and committed board member, who happens to also be the researcher editor and administrator of the NIMSS report in question.

Please accept my apologies for restating numerous times that the GFSA active and committed board member also happens to be the UCT NIMSS researcher, editor and administrator, as this point appears to have been missed as it is not addressed in the GFSA reply.

May I request GFSA to confirm that other GFSA board members are aware that some of their other committed and dedicated board members are also the publishers of the reports that are in disputed by me. The same comments and request holds true for the publisher of the book “A Nation without guns?”

Committed and Active Board Member Professor Sebastian Van As research.

My direct personal verbal as well as written request for information directly from the above committed and active Gun Free South Africa board member was not successful either. The above active and committed GFSA board member was verbally and in writing been informed by me that there are errors in the research published by such GFSA board member. Verbal and written requests for previously published research from this same committed and dedicated GFSA board member also remains outstanding.

Kindly confirm that this email directed to specific committed and active GFSA board members will also be made known to all other GFSA board members as well.

GFSA point 2 below refers.

The GFSA active and committed board member Dr. Richard Matzopoulos self-published the research in the American journal as stated. However, the GFSA press release incorrectly refers to this GFSA board member self-published research as… “Oxford University research as Proof….”

Kindly confirm that the GFSA board member own self-published research material as referenced by GFSA press release is;

  1. a) Not Oxford university research as stated in GFSA press release.
  2. b) That the GFSA board member abstract self-published research “only suggests” and does not itself claim to be:- “Oxford University researched proving”, as claimed in the GFSA press release.

In this instance a direct appeal is made to GFSA, being the author of an incorrect press release statement. GFSA is the best placed to correct their own GFSA incorrect press release. Kindly confirm that GFSA will correct its own incorrect press release statement.

Kindly confirm that all other GFSA board members are informed accordingly.

I trust that if all GFSA active and committed board members are informed of the above, that they will concur that my previous attempts to have GFSA dedicated and committed board members research papers corrected as suggested in GFSA point 5 below has not been fruitful.

Kindly confirm that the full contents of this email correspondence will now be made available to all the other committed and dedicated GFSA board members. This is requested so that when next I discuss this issue with other GFSA board members, that they can then be in a more informed position to reply to my questions regarding GFSA active and committed board members published research.

As stated by GFSA reply below, the information which is in the public domain, must be addressed and corrected by the authors of such papers. Such authors also happens to be dedicated and committed GFSA board members. It is clear that GFSA authors by not declaring their GFSA committed and dedicated board membership status, is not acknowledging a potential conflict of interest.

I trust that you find my replies and request in this regard acceptable, and I look forward to receiving GFSA replies and confirmation in this regard

I remain

Yours faithfully

Ludwig Churr


(GFSA’s Response)

Thank you for your email, the contents thereof are noted.


Dear Claire and Adele,

Further to my email and your reply 26 June 2015 as below.

Are there any comments other than “Thank you for your email, the contents thereof are noted.” ?

It will be appreciated if you could also supply answers to the following:-

1)      Latest call and comments by GFSA again quote incorrect statistics. Statistics that are in dispute that GFSA must as yet still reply to as per my un-replied email as below.

2)      Does GFSA subscribe to the PAIA Act of 2000? GFSA use the act to obtain information. Does GFSA supply information under this act? There is no indication on GFSA website that GFSA subscribe to the PAIA Act of 2000 to supply information.

3)      Who and what is GFSA? I am aware that GFSA receive funding from G Soros USA funds. GFSA also obtains pro bono advertising. GFSA dedicated and committed board members are known as they appear on GFSA website, Other that the aforementioned. Please inform how many members, (or whatever) does GFSA have on their records. I can also claim that I speak for 40 million people, but I need to prove my membership claims. Kindly confirm how members does GFSA have.

Before GFSA dismisses my second request for information, please be advised that this email is forwarded to the Police Portfolio Committee for their information and use.

Parliament ministers and Cabinet ministers have been informed that GFSA statistics, and the source thereof are in dispute. This email will now inform and confirm to Parliament directly that once again, GFSA has been advised that GFSA statistics, and the source thereof, are in dispute.

Please be so kind as to also inform all the other committed and dedicated GFSA board members accordingly, so that there can be no claims of ignorance to the fact that GFSA statistics are in dispute.

It will be appreciated if GFSA can acknowledge receipt of this email in the first instance. And confirm if a reply will be forthcoming, and the time frame within which a full reply (if any) will be  made.

Your usual kind attention and reply will be appreciated.

I remain

Ludwig Churr


Dear Adele,

The radio debate on 6 August 2015 as below refers.

https://soundcloud.com/powerfm987/gun-control-debate

Once again GFSA are notified that the statistics bandied by GFSA are incorrect.

1)      The firearm control act saving lives undertaken by GFSA committed and dedicated board member has been disputed and GFSA has been informed in this regard. GFSA continuing using discredited statistics need to be answered without delay.

2)      GFSA claiming that firearms are used in is major leading method for suicide is incorrect. This is incorrect for South Africa and for the world. GFSA is incorrect in making this claim.

3)      GFSA is invited to supply statistics supporting claims that domestic violence is perpetuated by firearms.

4)      GFSA to confirm whether they accept the official SA Statistics that show that 5% of all murders are committed by firearms. That means that 95% of murders are committed with knifes, sticks stones and fires.

As this is an open email, please note that this email has been forwarded to both the Police Portfolio Committee and the Shadow Minister of Police for their information.

GFSA are once again invited to answer my previous and this email.

I remain

Yours faithfully

L D Churr


4 thoughts on “GFSA get their facts spectacularly wrong. Again. Still.

  1. Thank you kindly for the kind words and publishing the emails. And yet there is more to come. Adele spoke on femicide and I reviewed the research referenced by her. Again they and the research paper got it wrong. My email will be published as soon as I documented all errors. There are a substantial number, so it may take a day or two.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Mr Churr and Gunservant, what a fantastic job you guys are doing for all legal firearm owners!! Having been involved in the pro-firearms effort since the late 1990’s, I understand and appreciate the enormous effort you guys are making to counter the misconceptions and deliberate miss information propagated by Kirsten & Co. Your efforts give us the ammunition to counter their mindless onslaughts on our constitutional rights. Few gun owners realise that what you do is all consuming and takes up all your spare time.Thank you most sincerely for your efforts and know that it is deeply appreciated. JP

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Such fantastic work should not go unnoticed or simply be a footnote on one website. I as a founder member of GOSA and BGOASA having spent what seems like a life time or more have watched in utter frustration as a few unimaginably incompetent and elitist organisation have lulled firearm owners into relying on them for some relief. That one single act of stupidity destroyed and chance of a major impact on the FCA. There are many many thousands of firearm owners out their who have a vested interest in fighting this abominable legislation even if your organisation is sitting on its bum. You may think your vested interest is a Saturday afternoon having fun or hunting once a year. Others know but do nothing that their safety depends on firearm ownership in so many ways.

    Dear firearm owners wake up. These are your rights, your life and that of your loved ones, most important of all the public’s safety. You are a members of the public like all others and as such you do not deserve an preferential treatment no matter who you are. Every member of the public deserves these rights. The fact that firearm organisations are elitists is born from their unwillingness to challenge bad legislation that strips citizens of their human rights, their unwillingness to defend the public’s safety and their utter disdain for anyone who reminds them of this duty. Kick your officials in the rear end until they either resign or get on with the job of winning this fight. They are the major cause of the position we are now in and that cannot be denied.

    Like

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